Re: ....Questions.....

[Gina Heitz <brier@oregonsbest.com>]

Hi Mean Really Mean Really Old Auntie IIene and List,

I have sat back on this one to see what others would come up with to help 
Peggy on this subject and will now give my two cents on it.  Remember it's 
ok to have a difference of opinion and no one should feel stymied by 
anyones difference of opinion.  First what I would do what I did years ago 
when I worked out of the home and had puppies [not litters just our own 
babies] was to take each day as it comes and feel very guilty every day and 
feel like I was missing out.  Final outcome, well I quit my job and look 
now! <LOL>  But seriously:

Some days I could get a break in my day and come home, others I simply 
could not and some days I could get help and others not.  I relied on my 
neighbors to help me out by coming over and letting the puppy out into the 
yard for 30 minutes or so mid day and I always came right straight home 
from work no delays, no over time ect.  I have never fed more than twice a 
day so there was no lunch to be concerned about but maybe a treat such as a 
Milkbone for good behavior.  Now days btw, that treat would be a carrot or 
some other healthy alternative <grin>.  Kaycee for instance was one of 
these dogs, and she spent up to 8 hours in a given day in her crate from 9 
weeks to 6 months old in her crate, without harm.  For activity in the 
crate often I would give her things to chew on, Nylabone, hard rubber 
toys.  It was not ideal but she was not harmed nor was her potty training 
ever compromised by such.  She never messed in her crate nor did she suffer 
bladder infections or anything else anyone can come up with. <grin>

With other dogs I have left them in blocked off areas of my kitchen for 
same periods of time and while I have had to clean up pee and on a very 
rare occasion a poop they have as well not been hindered in the potty 
training area.  Yet other dogs I left in the garage in a portable kennel 
run and again there were some messes but so what, I just cleaned them up 
and went on with the day.

The crate method verses the blocked off area seamed to provide the best 
safety over all for the puppy.  There was no chewing of the wood work ect 
and the puppy noted, Kaycee, is at almost age 12 a very reliable dog. 
:-)  But not to say if you can't provide a really safe blocked of area that 
it does not work, it does and if that is better for your guilt than go for 
it.  Mean OLD VERY OLD IIene hit the nail on the head pointing out this is 
YOUR problem not the dogs.  Make a choice to just deal with this and trust 
me the dog won't know the difference... With blocked of  area, chances are 
there won't be many messes anyway, as dogs do not like to soil their den 
and that penned off area will soon become the puppies den.  After about 10 
weeks of age most puppies start to get the idea of the closed in space and 
just won't soil it, but once let out of that space beware they are going to 
go potty.  So I do suggest picking them up and going right out the door.

So how do you accomplish making this safe penned of area?  Buy an exercise 
pen, like the ones you have seen in my yard.  Portable fencing so to 
speak.  I suggest you by the 36" high pen as the 24" can be scaled with 
more ease that the 36".   These pens are 4 ft by 4 ft when made into a 
square, and to stabilize  build  a 4 ft by 4 ft frame to hold the pen.  I 
first saw this frame at Judy' years ago and man I had George build me one 
right away.  He used 2"x 2" lumber and the frame stands about 6" to 8 " off 
the ground and keeps the pen from being knocked over or moved around.  I am 
happy to show anyone this very fashionable piece of fine furniture anytime...

Where do you find x-pens?  The best place is at a dog show, the second best 
is a pet store, and sometimes the over all best is a catalog, hard copy or 
on line.  I think IIene noted to me she was shopping for new x-pens and she 
may be able to give some advise on best prices right now.  Mean Old Very 
Mean Very Old IIene????

Ok how about the garage idea?  Ok guys [men] it's hard I know but can you 
not give up a 6 ft by 8 ft space for the puppy in your garage?  Sure you 
can, to save the guilt on your poor old significant other and the abuse you 
will suffer if you do not? <grin>  There are modular dog runs available at 
many places, Home Depot is less expensive than a pet store for 
these...  They come in panels that anyone can put together, they just screw 
together and provide a nice safe space. This is what I have in my kennel 
all those runs are portable and you bet they go with us not the 
house...  BTW in the PNW these runs are a great idea for winter dry 
offs.  A lot of people will put their dog in the run in the garage after a 
romp to dry off on the occasional rainy day we have here.

So there you have it, guilt released...

Now here is my part that goes with the first paragraph on the difference of 
opinion:  Just my approach my opinion.  I highly recommend a GOOD doggie 
day care.  For instance the one that Kryten and Ripley go to is a great 
example.  There are no crates at this facility and the dogs do not fight 
and they do play a lot.  Sure they sleep too but that is the "nature of the 
beast".  Except Kryten who plays the entire day....  Kryten takes full 
advantage of his play mates...  FULL did I say FULL?  Jan and Charles get 
their full two dog dollars worth on Kryten alone. <smile>  I know I have 
baby sat him, he is a good dog, not troublesome at all but he loves to play 
and is always up for a romp.  A good doggie day care will only accept dogs 
who can learn to be social and not quarlsome with others.  Simply any dog 
who can not get along is not welcome.  A good day care will monitor their 
charges as you would expect a human day care provider to do with your human 
child.  Simply the rules that apply to human day care are easily 
transferred to doggie day cares.  Some even offer training sessions in 
addition to the training of the socialization they get from just being 
around the other pooches...

  I disagree with one thing though with the day care that Jan and Charles 
uses, they state NO crates, well that's a shame in my opinion, I think all 
dogs should have a crate available to them and that using crates is a good 
thing and a skill that every dog should posses.  What if your dog ever HAS 
to BE crated:  the vet over night, flown, ect...  Never say never...

BTW, I do doggie day care here and ya know what my little charges do spend 
some time in a crate.  I also do some training too.  I know this is not an 
option for most of you as in using me but I do need to defend my rip off 
here ok!  Ha Ha Ha IIene, got ya!  Oh and btw, the house I found for you in 
Hubbard would be a great facility for you to do doggie day care in and make 
a good wage too.  No more out of the house to work, you too could totally 
go to the dogs...  Hey all Mean Old VERY MEAN VERY OLD IIene and POD [poor 
old Dave] are thinking of moving to OR...

Hope this helps and I would also like to say thanks to all of you who have 
chimed in on this topic as it is a real concern for a lot of people and 
every ones view has merit..  Even Mean OLD Auntie IIene's...

Gina