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Re: Growing Pups

At 10:17 PM 7/24/00 -0700, Carol Jackson wrote:
One question though?? Is it to early to get him to retrieve?? He will chase it sometimes, but will get almost to you and run the other way

I've been super busy the last two weeks and just now have time
to answer your post.  Maybe others have posted privately.  But
anyway, I'll take a shot at answering.....

It's never too early to play retrieving games! <s>  But they should
remain just that....fun and games...at this age.  What you want
most when working with puppies is a happy attitude.  It sounds
like from your last paragraph that you already practice this principle.
Good work, Carol! :-)

At this age, they really don't have that much focus.  We tell our puppy
classes not to train more than one minute for each month of their puppies'
lives at one session.  It's better to have two or three of these 'short'
sessions throughout the day, than one longer one where the puppy
tires and becomes frustrated.  You score an A on this too!

You want your puppies to grow up associating good things with you
and training.  Keep it fun, keep it light, keep it interesting.  Don't
expect a lot until you see the puppy understands exactly what you
are asking and can consistently deliver it.  Hunter's still too puppyish
to do this yet.

Now....that said.....our Angel, as a pup, was very much like you describe
your puppy boy.  If we called "come", she would look us directly in the
eyes and run as fast as she could the other way.  Forget about retrieving!
<vbg>  She loved to chase and snag the toy/ball, but then would run off
with it.

Angel just turned 17 months and I think we may *finally* have her trained
to retrieve to hand.  This was a really important skill for her to have because
we do obedience, field and tracking training, all of which require picking
something up and bringing it back to hand.

More than formal training, we've had lots of games we play around the
house.  Sometimes, when I'm working at the computer, I will keep
tiny treats on the desktop to reward Angel's retrieving when I
throw toys down the hall. 

When I first started this game, she would jump up on me to fetch
her own treats off the top shelf of the computer <g>  I was firm that
she wasn't going to get them that way.  Then she would sit quietly
eyeballing me and the stack of treats.  No go, Angel!  Go do your
fetch!  Neither of us budged for a while.  Then she started bringing
back the toy. Now she will initiate a game with me, by bringing a toy
because she understands what the rules are.

We take short breaks and run like wild animals up and down the house
and then throw toys and try to beat her to them, or run wildly back the
other way.  All of this is done with excitement and craziness and Angel
thinks it's a big game.  LIFE IS A GAME for Angel!  That's our mantra :-)

Iris is our A student because she's smart and has a great work ethic.
I used to think Angel was missing a few cogs upstairs because we
were used to Iris' ways.  As it turns out, Angel is like the super-gifted
student that goofs off in class, teases the teacher, never seems to
be paying attention and then snags a 100% on the test. But you
have to capture her imagination first to really involve her in training.

Two other things that you might try are throwing the item; then
running backwards as they pick it up and start trying to decide
what to do with it.  We learned this from someone else and it worked
in transitioning Angel to bring it to us instead of running off with it.

Another possibility, which we have used with both our girls when
they got to be teenagers and a bit more independent, was to long
line them.  Find about forty feet of rope in the hardware section.
Put a swivel clip on one end that can attach to their collar.  Let
the rope lie on the ground as they run around.  But when you want
them to return to you, you slowly and gently tug the rope toward
you until they are within reach.  This is good for dogs that don't
obey the "come" command also.  Only takes about 3 days to
3 weeks of training like this and the dog begins to believe that it's
on a 40 foot line, even when it's off!

Another thought is to identify what part of "retrieving" they need
help with and then work on that....

First......going out after the toy and finding it
Second.....picking it up in their mouth
Third.....keeping it in their mouth while returning
Fourth....bringing it all the way back to you without dropping

I have tried the treat thing, but he just drops it and comes running for the treat, then there is nothing that you can do to change his train of thought, he wants food and he will not go after some stupid ball for nothing!!

Take the food off your person and put it up somewhere where you can
go over and reward him when he returns with the toy.  This is a test of
wills <s>  He's trying to train you to reward him without his doing any
work :-)))    Our doggie mentor used to tease me unmercifully that Iris
had me very well trained when I complained about something Iris was
doing.  Always look to see what you are doing to reinforce behavior.
Then remove that action on your part or alter it.  In this case, it's to
get rid of the obvious food on your person that he can beg for.

Food reward does not work for him, because he is obsessed with it.  He cannot manage to think about food and anything else at the same time.  I don't know what to do?? We don't want to push him.  So we only do it when he is interested and not for very long, we try to stop before the game gets boring to him. 

A tired puppy is a good puppy is my mantra. Does he get lots of free
exercise during the day?   Does he have other puppy playmates to wear
him down?  Does his behavior become worse when he's overtired or
overstimulated?

The other thing I think Gina has mentioned also is that Hunter may be
a dominant puppy.  It takes a long time, a lot of patience, and consistent,
firm behavioral reinforcement through puppyhood, but one day you will have
a totally devoted, retrieving fool golden.  Somehow, all the training comes
together as they mature, but when they're puppies, it sometimes feels like
the training's for naught.

I wouldn't trade our Angel for anything.  She is a total kick in the
pants with her daredevil attitude, confidence, and lively energy.  The
benefits are really paying off now of not pushing her too hard and
keeping training fun and her attitude happy.  She's bringing all this
enthusiasm and confidence to the show ring and tracking...and she's
going to be a killer agility dog <vbg> 

But there were times during her puppy months when I wanted to crate
her and throw away the key (don't worry, I didn't ;-) after she chewed
the inside of Perry's car door, household rugs, stripped out bushes
in the backyard, and more.  

Been where you are.... it does get better!  As Angel continues to mature,
she's gained more focus and desire to please.  There's nothing you can
do to hurry up nature; just try to enjoy the process <s>  And hang in there!

Linda

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Linda Shipman
Juneau, Alaska
Linda.Shipman@chezor.alaska.com
http://www.chezor.alaska.com    
U-CDX, UCI-Intl & CAN CH Goodtimes Flower Power
        Am-Can CDX, Am-Can TD, CGC           "IRIS"
Mariner Aces High at Chezor, CGC                  "ANGEL"
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