Re: litter wrap up - barf

["Macen K. Shinsato" <macen@foxinternet.net>]

Gina,

Thanks for copying us on this message.  I think you did a
great job with this litter.  12 is a huge number and it was
your first large BARF litter.  It is so easy to lose pups
to giardia--I think it is amazing that all these pups came
through in great shape!

I hope the new pup owners are thinking about a BARF
diet and doing some reading about it.  Both of the Billinghurst
books are great and lots of folks swear by Kymthe Schultz'
books.  I just read Billinghurst and found lots of support
on the net at the BARF list and K-9 nutrition list.  It seems
like a big leap to take but we are really pleased with the
results after 10 months.  If anyone has any questions
concerning the diet, there is lots of support available here.
If you'd like the addys for the other lists I mentioned just
let me know.

I have arrived at the same conclusion as Gina--that it really
is important to have a vet well-versed in the raw diet or at
the very least supportive of the idea.  My allopathic vets
were apalled when I talked to them so no support there!
I found a homeopathic vet who is very supportive so now
we see both and I feel like we have most of our bases covered.
Gina, we have a great vet up here--kind of a long trip but
we'd love to see you!  There is a great resource for finding a
holistic vet--if anyone is interested, I'd be happy to post it.

This all seems like alot to think about during those new puppy
days.  Hope this hasn't been overwhelming!  I am really enjoying
the stories and info here.  Thanks all and hang in there Gina.
Happy anniversary!

Lori


Gina Heitz wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> The " moon dust" has settled here and all the "moon" puppies are now well
> on their way settled in their new homes scattered around the country except
> our TRiX who is staying put. :-) Meet her and her litter mates/cousins at:
>
> http://www.briergoldens.com/sprite_scarlette_litter_pa.htm
>
> I wanted to share some of my experiences with all of you with the trials
> and tribulations.  I ended up giving in and feeding the puppies kibble/
> modified barf after they all got ill.  We got giardia for the first time
> ever in a litter.  You may recall I was looking for help when I thought
> that I had muffed up the diet with too much ground meat and to high of
> fat.  I even wrote Dr. B who did respond.  Never dealing with giardia in a
> litter before and the pup's not really going off their food eating chopped
> RMB's with gusto I missed the symptoms which I am told are refusal to eat
> among other things.  Hind sight is such a great tool...  These guys had
> rotten stools and we did a litter collective check and treated for coccidia
> and/or other parasites (nothing was seen in the collective sample but
> sometimes you do have coccidia and not see it or I have...)  Albon  did
> apparently sooth things as the stools firmed back up but after treatment of
> 5 days they went loose again ( treat for 10 days always).  My vet was very
> much in the loop and while they are not versed on raw feeding they have
> been supportive.
>
> Because the puppies were really active and eating I just kept beating my
> head on the wall and kept going....  Dr. B's advise to me given what I told
> him  was to go to strictly RMB's cut out all the ground because it is so
> high in fat.  I did that and things cleared up for a day or two, only to go
> back to icky again.  No one ever refused food or appeared sick till 6
> weeks, which was about 10 days into the bad poop beginnings.   We had one
> puppy who really got sick and did stop eating.  My vet told me when we
> brought him in he thought this guy had some sort of a congenital problem
> such as he out grew his kidneys...  His blood work was in the toilet and
> did indicate renal failure as well as we did get a positive for giardia via
> Eliza test.  We hydrated him, force fed him and just babied him
> along.  At  8 weeks we repeated the work ups and things were on an up swing
> but not right... At 10 weeks we repeated his works ups and he was normal,
> thank goodness...  Though he is not the best eater still and has gained
> weight slower than the rest of the litter.  He was not small at birth,
> these guys all weighed exactly 1 pound at birth with the exception of 1 at
> 15 ounces...  Mom was barf fed.
>
> With the majority of the litter we were able to get the giardia under
> control with in 5 days of treatment but we treated for a full 10 days.  I
> had a couple that took a bit more "work" as in they are not the eaters that
> the rest of the litter are... At 11 weeks now everyone expect Hogan the pup
> noted above and his sister Riley are "back" on food, most a modified raw
> diet with no problems eating every bit in seconds.  Riley and Hogan are
> still a bit picky as in they eat a few bites and walk away come back
> ect...  Both are gaining weight and looking good but the giardia really
> took it's toll on them as well as the Metronidazole did, Panacur did not
> work, though we tried.  Hogan just went home Friday at exactly 11 weeks
> with my vet's blessing and he is doing great.  These two are also on
> modified barf getting some raw meat and veggies mixed with kibble.  Again
> as noted in my post to Melaine on her bitch not eating I have noticed these
> guys also want nothing to do with poultry.  They will eat ground beef,
> liver ect but no ground turkey or chicken??? Weird???  TRiX on the other
> hand will clean up a chicken neck or wing in seconds, she never has refused
> any foods...  She is a porker, 11 weeks and on a reducing diet! <LOL>
>
> Anyway why I ended up giving in and going back to feeding the litters dog
> food was for several reasons:  One being I was so frazzled and concerned
> about Hogan and the rest of them too I just ran out of time.  I literally
> was doing nothing but caring for dogs and puppies from well before sun up
> to well after 10:00 PM daily.  Now don't get me wrong I am dedicated to my
> dogs and always put 120% of myself into litters and the care of the new
> families, Deb Mc Fail, Carolyn Elliott and Linda Shipman all list members
> here can attest to that.  But something had to give...  Most of my litter
> families were wanting to go raw and were reading and trying to work through
> things but were also leaning on me hard not only for diet help but lots of
> other things as well as in this group of 12 families we had several
> "special needs" families.  Ie: had never had a dog before or had been
> years, or had had dogs with problems previously...  High maintenance
> group...  Great group all willing to learn and receptive to all the info I
> do put out ect, but still just high maintenance...   Also as things evolved
> for me concerns on interpretation of the diet from each family and their
> capabilities to actually not muff it up and create problems as their
> puppies grew also became a big concern.
>
>   At the same time all this was happening our dear Rocky has been diagnosed
> with his cancer metastasizing  to his lungs.  He is doing really well right
> now we are hopeful he will at lest enjoy the summer but beyond that were
> not being hopeful.  Rocky is off BARF and on dog food too as he won't touch
> raw anything right now...  To top it off SeaJay has been injured in a field
> accident and we are to the vet on a daily basis for bandage changes. He
> really got his left front foot tore up and pads take for ever to heal and
> infection is major concern with the type injury he has sustained.  He is
> out of action my vet says till probably October/November...  In essence you
> can equate his injury to getting a foot caught in a steel trap though it
> was not a steel trap but was sharp rusty metal...   Ugg more than my fair
> share...
>
> Now that I have given you all eye strain I want to contribute to the list
> from my hind sight:  Some ideas for the future for me at least...
>
> Raw feeding of litters is great!   But be better prepared than I was.  I
> did make up meals in advance but no where near enough of them.  Besides
> making meals up for your planned litter make up easy meals for your own
> dogs and uh your family as well.  Something I did not do.
>
> If you have a waiting list of people in line for up and coming litters get
> them started reading NOW on the diet and everything else that comes with
> puppies. *Now*  even if the litter is a year out...  I did have a list and
> I did encourage them to read well ahead but not strongly enough
> maybe.  Know that as the time draws closer to when your going to be so busy
> with care of the litter and if any thing like giardia or cancer or injury
> does happen to you and I sure hope it doesn't  from the bottom of my black
> little heart, your going to have to tell some of these people that if they
> don't get this program it's best they just go to dog food until you can
> mentor them with a clearer frame of mind.
>
> Make sure you have a vet who is at least supportive of the diet.  I think
> it best to find a vet who really believes in the diet though and am
> currently in search of one for "part time help".  I love my current vet and
> will continue to use them but as I do use a re pro vet at times, I now know
> I need a holistic vet too.
>
> Hope this helps.  I have copied my own Brier list group on this so let me
> take a minute to say while I am calling you guys needy to some degree some
> of you have been <smile>.  I would not trade anyone of you in your all
> GREAT, and this raw list is too and if your incline to want to learn more
> lurking here is highly encouraged but know you have had to do some reading
> and research on your own before you apply for membership.
>
> Gina
>
> Gina & George Heitz
> gina@briergoldens.com
> http://www.briergoldens.com
> Brier Golden Retrievers, where temperament and train ability go paw in hand...
> And home of one great GSD Tollhaus Hobby's Heart "Haus" meet his family at
> www.24kgsd.com
> Current litters are at:
> http://www.cs.utah.edu/~stoller/newpups/
> http://asoros.tripod.com/rocket.html
> http://www.briergoldens.com/sprite_scarlette_litter_pa.htm
> Our rescue boy at:
> http://www.cs.utah.edu/~stoller/torrey/
> *copyright on all communication reserved. Distribution of communication
> denied.*