Re: clearnace info Casino litter (Annie)

[Gina Heitz <brier@oregonsbest.com>]

At 07:32 AM 12/22/01 -0800, you wrote:
>I am so sorry to hear this Gina. I know what you are feeling right now.
>Dr. Padgett told me once, "no matter how careful you are, you will still
>see it in one of every one hundred puppies".  As a breeder, I like you,
>would like this number to be "none" in every hundred, but that it
>appears is out of our control.
>
>                                          Ilene

I want to elaborate on what IIene says here as I think that while I 
understand what she is saying some of you might not and her notation to 
numbers could alarm you though that was not her intention, when we talk as 
breeders sometimes we forget that many people only know the names of the 
diseases and not what we are not saying, but thinking...  I do this all the 
time and have to go back and explain...

With HD one never knows when the genes can line up and be expressed.  Most 
traits good and bad are polygenic in nature and figuring out when and how 
they will be expressed is impossible at this time no DNA test 
available.  Polygenic traits do not follow any set pattern there are not 
identifiable rules we can use to avoid them.  They are not like dominate or 
recessive pairs too many genes involved.  This is why only some puppies 
will express the genes needed to manifest HD or any other XX disorder.  Eye 
color for example is a good example of dominant/recessive pairs.  Brown 
eyes are dominate and blue are recessive.  To get blue eyes both parents 
have to carry the gene for blue. For example I may carry the blue eye gene 
as my father had blue eyes though I have brown and my mother gray hazel 
eyes.  It's not this simple with polygenic traits. Some puppies in a given 
litter will express more desirable combinations while others will have a 
less desirable pattern develop. This is one good reason to not inbreed and 
why I have always chosen to keep my lines diverse.  Though with that you 
are also gambling. Even though I do my homework and try to only breed into 
lines that have a low instance of disease many diseases, some times the bad 
genes will line up.

No matter how many Brier dogs we look at though I still think we should 
look for the dogs sake,  we really will never truly be able to say yup this 
pair of dogs are dangerous or lethal if you will, carriers who are showing 
an in fact prepotency to XX disease.  This is one reason  why we want to 
look though, to be able to put percentages on each dog and it's 
production.  This means sires and dams, not just one dog and as many 
progeny as we can. You can not credit one dog to any given trait 
necessarily. Making a prediction of a specific outcome from a particular 
mating involving polygenic traits is currently impossible.  Meaning we 
could breed Gidget to SeaJay 10 more times and not even see HD again even 
mild HD though the odds are that we would see some HD, I do not have my 
head in the sand. :-)   We of course will not be doing that (10 times) nor 
will we be breeding Gidget to SeaJay again anytime soon, not until data is 
collected, no matter how wonderful the progeny are in other respects.  We 
will also use what information we gain to access where we go down the road 
with their progeny and related others.  This at this point in time affects 
a good many of the potential dogs we have here to potentially breed:  TRiX 
1/2 sister to SeaJay also related to Gidget.  DiTTo and Reo both progeny of 
G&S.  This is not intended to be an additional plea or to pressure 
anyone,it's intent is to give you a working understanding of why I choose 
to make the original plea to begin with.

  Many breeders, or most, do not make these pleas some because they feel 
that people don't want to spend the money, or wont, but I am here to tell 
you that in a case like Annie's this disease would have reared it's ugly 
head and probably sooner than later.  The information that has been 
provided to Ruth and John is valuable and as noted in my first post on this 
probably the best thing that could have happened in this case.  I take 
credit for educating Ruth and John and I credit them for listening.

Other reasons I have heard from other breeders as to why they don't ask 
their clients to do screening is: "because the normal pet owner does not 
understand and often mild cases can go on undetected and have no cause and 
affect on the dog and they panic. sometimes they go to extremes and can get 
sucked in by vets for example who are not ethical."  While this is true, 
truer than I care to account, I feel that this mind set is irresponsible 
and the only way to change that is to educate everyone not only on the 
diseases but how to manage them and how to make good choices not just for 
how you care for your dog but who you choose to help care for your dog.

Anyway I good site I would like to pass on is this 
one:  http://www.k9web.com/dog-faqs/medical/medical-info.02.html#HD

While I do not necessarily agree with every word written on this page and 
have as well read else where contrary or more realistic approaches most of 
what is there is of value, very good information.

Gina :-))