RE: the multi dog adjustment HELP for Peggy

["Yanna Jorni" <goldk9s@cox.net>]

Hi Peggy,

Sorry for the delay in responding to your post.  I wanted to "ponder"
this, and then we had our scare with our senior golden, Michelob...

If AmEx has only been there for two weeks, I certainly wouldn't be
worried at all right now!  You need to give this some time.  Katie has
likely been used to being an "only pup" for as long as she's been with
you.  Although you have your 16 year old dog, as I'm sure you know...
that is not the same!

I know that Leigh responded in saying that AmEx is coming from a
completely different environment at Gina's... and that really should be
taken into consideration.  Both Katie and AmEx are very close in age and
could really become the best of friends.  Sometimes it takes time!

When we first introduced our "pack" in June of 1998... I flew my Jake &
Chelsea down here to AZ from OR (a traumatic experience in itself).
They were both barely 1 year old at the time.  Rick had a 13+ year old
golden, a 5 year old golden and a 10 month old golden I'd rescued from
Oregon.  

Immediately, his 10 month old golden (Austin) and my 1 year old (Jake)
bonded!  They played and played and played... chasing each other around
the house & playing "bitey-face".  Austin was neutered and Jake was not
(as we were pursuing his show career in confirmation at the time).
After spending 3 weeks together, Jake left the pack for a little over a
month.  He went on the road with a professional handler to see if he had
what it took to be a "show dog".

While Jake was gone was when Chelsea & Austin "bonded".  Chelsea was
also just 1 year old and Austin was nearly 1.  While Jake was gone, Rick
had to send his senior boy, Rusty to the bridge -- as his health was
rapidly failing.  All during the time that we'd merged the two sets of
goldens together, Chelsea was positioning herself to take over the
position of Alpha dog of the new pack.  Rusty had always been the Alpha
dog in Rick's house, but he did submit to Chelsea taking over... as he
knew it was his time.  Now, with Chelsea being "Boss Dog" and being best
friends with Austin... it was clear that there would be some interesting
dynamics in the pack once Jake came back home from his stint on the show
circuit.

Sure enough, when Jake came home... we had problems!  Chelsea did NOT
want to accept Jake back into the pack.  He was once her best buddy &
now she wanted nothing to do with him!  So, the jockeying for 2nd
position in the pack began -- between Austin & Jake.  This continued for
quite some time.  Austin wanted nothing to do with his former "best
friend", as he was now "in love" with Chelsea and clearly wanted to be
#2 dog in the pack.  (just as a side note:  Michelob was NEVER a factor,
as he has always been & will always be the Omega dog in any pack).  He
likes it that way & that is what makes him so special.

Due to my stubbornness and wanting to "show" Jake (he is a drop dead
gorgeous golden boy, BTW)... I did not agree to get him neutered until
he was 2 1/2 years old.  Gina can attest to the fact that I had "stars
in my eyes" when it came to my best friend & doggie love, Jake!  He does
not have the temperament that we want to reproduce in the breed, but I
wasn't seeing that at the time!  I never wanted to breed him, but I just
thought he was the most beautiful golden I'd ever laid eyes on & I
wanted to show him off to the world!  He didn't need or want the blue
ribbons... that wasn't going to make him a better dog!  It was my
"vanity" that kept me from doing what was best for our pack & our
family...

After numerous aggressive altercations between Jake & Austin, and
sometimes Chelsea (as she would jump in to moderate)... Rick FINALLY
convinced me that we needed to rid my boy of his "testosterone
poisoning".  It was long overdue!  It took a good year for him to really
get "better".  He is 5 now, and has turned into a wonderful dog!  He is
still very high strung and is not typical of the golden temperament (as
he has some "interesting" genes in his lines).

We still have "issues" once in a blue moon and we will never really be
able to fully trust Jake around other dogs.  And, even though our
Chelsea is a registered "TDI" pet therapy dog... we can't trust her
around other dogs either.  She is an EXTREME Alpha "Bitch"!!!

I know this (now very long) diatribe really has nothing to do with your
situation, Peggy... it is just some interesting "history" on pack
behavior and integrating adult dogs.  I'd really like to hear more about
the situation between AmEx & Katie... and the additional questions you
have.  But after only 2+ weeks, I sure wouldn't be worried about them
not going "balls to the walls" playing with each other.  Is AmEx
neutered?  And if so, how long ago was he neutered?

And, as an interesting follow up to our personal situation between the
Chelsea/Austin-/Jake dynamics...  Chelsea has not wanted to have
anything to do with playing with Austin for the past 2 years almost!
But, her and Jake play "tug-of-war", and chase the tenny balls around
the swimming pool together... and seem much closer than the others
(almost like they were before they were merged with Rick's pack).
Funny... but canine behavior is always changing.  You just never know!

Yanna

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-brierpups@fast.cs.utah.edu
[mailto:owner-brierpups@fast.cs.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Peggy & Kurt
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 6:36 PM
To: brierpups@fast.cs.utah.edu
Subject: Re: the multi dog adjustment HELP for Peggy

Hi All
Gina, thanks for posting this to the list, and thanks for quick
responses
from others.  Katie just turned one yesterday - happy birthday to all
the
Casino kids!  AmEx is 14 months old.  Katie's primary joy in life (other
then food) is playing with other dogs.  She wants to play with just
about
any dog she meets.  I decided to get her a playmate, and (twist my arm)
to
get another golden :-)  We do have a 16 yr old border collie mix who
tolerates her but does not want to play with her.
I had been thinking about a puppy until Gina told me AmEx was available.
I'd fallen for him the first time I saw him last summer.  I knew he
liked to
play, and I thought here's a graet dog and a good playmate for Katie.
 Well - great dog, yes - but the play thing isn't going so well.  Katie
"invites" play MANY times during the day, and he responds some but not
very
often.  My questions/concerns are wondering if it's most likely a time
issue - he's been here just two weeks, or do the two of them just not
"click"?  There's no aggression going on, just what appears to be a lack
of
interest on his part.  He does play when he's at daycare, but mostly
when
it's "group play".  He really is a wonderful dog, but I'm concerned
about
his not playing with Katie.  She seems to be getting a bit more aloof
and
somber.  Anyone's experiences on this subject would be great to hear.  I
do
have some other questions, but I'll save those for later.
Thanks!
Peggy