Re: vaccinations

[Gina Heitz <brier@oregonsbest.com>]

> > Why is it that we *think* as humans that dogs immune systems are so 
> fragile
> > that they require annual boosters for diseases that a normal immune system
> > should take care of anyway?  Why are we as humans only vaccinated twice in
> > most cases for most serious diseases?  Even ones that pose public health
> > risks?  A canine example is this:  Rabies, there has been an immune
>
> Hmm, not sure the human analogy is a good one. There are several important
> differences. First is that *all* US children are *required* to get
> vaccinations by law; you cannot bring your child to school without proof.
> For dogs, rabbies is required (although there is no equivalent proof
> mechanism). Second, vaccinations have side effects, and while its terrible
> when a dog dies from a vaccination, it tends to make the news when a 2 year
> old child does, and that ripples through the system, all the way to the
> people who set these rules.
I am not talking about laws I am talking about what is good for the 
dogs.  I would really be interested in seeing immune duration studies done 
on the 7 or so virus and diseases that we vaccinate our canines for besides 
rabies, but alas the only companies that have the money to do that are the 
vaccine companies and well what would their motivation be?  Several vet 
schools have done uncontrolled not so official studies though and have 
changed recommendations to reflect general consensus.

Each individual does have the option of running titers for each disease but 
that is costly (though coming down) it's still somewhat out of range for 
most individuals and for those with multi dog households way out of 
sight.  Recommendations from several vet schools have come down over the 
past 5 to 7 years that suggest that vaccinating for most of what we 
vaccinate for can be done safely every 3 years.  Here is a site while not 
hosted by UC Davis it quotes the UC Davis protocol clearly: I site UC Davis 
mostly because of regional location to our proximity and that many diseases 
are considered regional.  This is a whole another topic but for instance 
Lepto is rarely seen on the west coast but is much more prevalent in the 
mid west and east coast.  Where as Corona virus is more prevalent on the 
west coast.

 IIene, Judy, care to comment on the instances of Lepto and or Corona 
virus?  Remember guys in 1998 I had confirmed Corona virus here that ran 
though a litter as well as the adult population BTW, everyone survived 
though some were sicker than others now in hind sight it was no big deal in 
that everyone is okay.  Sort of like the flu, we all get it but very few of 
us ever die of it...

Anyway check out this link:

http://www.awpga.com/vaccine.htm

What I am trying most to get across is that we as owners need to proactive 
in our pet's health care and *we* need to educate our selves not just 
depend on the "vet said"...  I have said this before, vet's are in business 
to make money maybe not first over all but they are!  It may be a clinic 
policy to suggest and to send out reminders yearly but the truth of it is 
that is marketing and if you buy into it then the vet profits by you 
submitting your dog.  As previously noted I do think that yearly check ups 
are a good idea and even though I have multiple dogs I do comply with this 
and feel that everyone should and actually I think my vet profits better at 
that, a office exam is close to $30.00 a package of shots is about $20.00 
and most vets do not charge an office exam when you come in for just shots 
(that is the hook so to speak) Btw shots cost the vet pennies, but the 
consumer walks away with something, marketing...  I also feel that vet's 
could make changes in how the market because most individuals do not think 
marketing when they get a notice from their vet that "Fluffy" is due,,,, 
they think "Dr. recommendation" and we as a society trust that our vet or 
human doctor only has our best interest in mind and only makes sound 
prudent suggestions.  I disagree.  Here is another interesting link:

http://www.bogartsdaddy.com/bouvier/Health/Vaccination.htm

I would also like to suggest some reading of some of the links on this page:

http://www.bogartsdaddy.com/bouvier/Health/vaccination_resources_page.htm


>>  For dogs, rabbies is required (although there is no equivalent proof
mechanism). <<

Not entirely accurate. :-)  "The 3 year rabies rule" is a state to state 
law yes it is a law, and is enforced.  You can not get a dog licence with 
out proof of either a rabies vaccine or a titer showing good 
immunity.  Some states will not accept titer's at all except in the case 
where an animals life is suspect of being endangered by vaccination.  Other 
states such as Texas require dogs to be boosted annually as there is a high 
instance of rabies in other species in Texas.  Did you know that it's 
possible for a rabid skunk or possum to  infect you, your cat, your dog, 
your bird, pick a species just by spraying you with urine or spitting at 
you?  Rare uncommon but possible, and since rabies is a public health 
concern, measures to protect the masses do have to be taken.  We do not 
know what the actual general duration of immunity of the rabies booster is 
the recommendation of 3 year boosters is a *legal recommendation of 
immunity*, not a true duration recommendation.



> Chicken Pox is a recent example in the news. Most of us are old enough to
> have received the vaccination, but it is widely believed that we are no
> longer protected by that after all these years.
 OT, this has been known for a long time or at least I know I am living 
proof of it, I received the 2 vaccines for chicken pox and still got them 
but what I did not get was small pox and that is the good of the chicken 
pox vaccine, as I recall the reason to vaccinate for cp is to protect 
against sp and if you get immunity from cp too great...  I could be wrong 
here, not having children I am not so up on these things...


> Basically, I think that its easier to set the stricter rules for dogs
> because dogs have a pretty small representation in your legislature!
Ah again, I say  inaccurate assumption that comes from marketing!!!! 
:-))  I do not challenge the law regarding rabies vaccines and what we are 
remanded to do there, but the other vaccines I do, which are not covered by 
any laws.


> Rabbies is every 3 years, and perhaps thats *because* its required for all
> dogs; the chance of exposure is lower.
The reason for the law is simply as said before because rabies is a public 
health hazard involving humans.  I had part of the rabies series when I was 
5 years old because I was bit by a dog that fled and was not found and 
confirmed to have been immunized with in the given time frame.  Fortunately 
for me the dog was eventually identified and confirmed to have been 
vaccinated. or at least the dog they brought to me I said was the dog. 
:-)  Those shots hurt!  :-))

 The general law regarding rabies btw goes something like this:  If your 
dog is attacked by animal suspect of being a carrier if your dog has been 
vaccinated you dog is quarantined for up to 90 days (house arrest).  If 
your dog is not current on vaccination that quarantine is in a facility at 
your expense.  If your dog bites a person  even though they are vaccinated 
the law requires a 10 day house arrest.  Been there done the latter with a 
dog bite, my dog, who bit me, "Hobby" my GSD of years ago.


> I'm just wondering if there are valid epidemiologic reasons for vaccinating
> more often in a population that is not required to get those vaccinations?
I do not think there is given what I am reading over the years on immune 
duration which was the basis of my example human/canine.  I honestly think 
that over vaccination is part of why we are seeing as many health problems 
in our canines, many vets are also starting to question this and are making 
different recommendations.  Change comes slowly sometimes and as with most 
everything in life personal choices do need to be respected, but at your 
breeder who does respect your personal choice, I also feel a obligation to 
stimulate growth through research, and stimulating that to come to pass on 
the personal level.  Knowledge is power and I only want to empower each of 
you, not dictate to you, though my opinions are strong, I also go with the 
flow most of the time and I do change my opinions from time to time, but on 
vaccinations I strongly urge each of you to challenge your personal 
knowledge base and to weigh out opinions.

Gina